Supplement to
Hauptli’s Lectures
on Plato’s Republic
Part I[1]
Copyright © 2015 Bruce W. Hauptli
There are two more recent files replacing the three on Plato's Republic for this course: Plato's Republic Supplement A and Plato's Republic B
[BOOK I]
1. Book I—A
preliminary overview [327-354c]:
The First Book of the
Republic provides an introduction to
the concerns, themes, and theses of the text.
Some scholars contend that it was written earlier than the remainder of
the text and that it may have been intended as a “stand-alone” dialogue.
Clearly, it more resembles the earlier Platonic dialogues than does the
remainder of the text. Note that
while the theses advanced in this First Book are not correct (according to
Plato), they are also not wholly wrong either.
For Plato, clearly, you must be right
for the right reasons.
The views expressed here (the importance of old age, wealth, giving
individuals their due, and even advantage) are all important—but they must be
rightly construed! The remainder of
the work endeavors to provide the arguments for what Plato considers to be the
right version of the themes and theses.
327c Pol: “Do you see how many we
are?” “Could you persuade men who
do not listen? The passage is there
to remind us of the nature of Socratic dialectic and of its prerequisites.
Cephalus:
Old Age, Wealth, and Justice:
329c Cephalus cites Sophocles:
“Old age and freedom from the many savage and tyrannical masters.”
The picture offered here is one of freedom from the
tyranny of the appetites (sexual
appetite is the specific example).
As is the case for most of the theses of the First Book, we must interpret this
discussion carefully. It is not
that Plato’s Socrates believes that a life of sexual abstinence is the best, but
that the advantage which old age brings is that it can facilitate the rational
control of the appetites. It is
this thesis, which he is ultimately in favor of, but this is to jump ahead of
ourselves—Cephalus’ point, in other words, needs to be interpreted (as it stands
it is both right and wrong, and without the context of the overall understanding
of what justice is, the rightness and wrongness can not be properly
disentangled.
-331a Cephalus: “...the
man who knows he has not sinned has a sweet and good hope as his constant
companion.”
331b Cephalus maintains that the
advantage of wealth is that it is
conducive to justice.
-he believes that justice amounts
to paying one’s debts.
--331c Soc:
Weapon example!
The example shows that there is something wrong with this
characterization of justice.
Polemarchus and Justice:
331e Pol: Justice amounts to
giving to each what is owed to him
(citing the poet Simonides).
-Soc: What is “due” one’s
enemies?
-Pol:
Harm is what is owed them—it is
their “due.”
-332c Soc: Is ‘due’ being used
correctly here? Practitioners of a
craft[2]
like medicine give others what is
their due,” so what do practitioners of justice do—wherein lies their
usefulness?
-332d The practice of justice
benefits one’s friends and harms one’s enemies.
--Soc: “benefit in what sense?”
-333 Pol: Justice is beneficial
in contracting situations—“in dealings between people.”
--Justice is useful in keeping
possessions safe when they are not in
use (it is useless when they are in use—in such cases other arts are more to the
point).
--333e Soc: Isn’t the skilled
boxer also the one most skilled in defending against blows?
--334a The man most capable of
guarding possessions will be the one most capable of stealing them?
And, thus, the just man is a kind of thief?
-334b Polemarchus is puzzled—but
keeps to his definition.
-334c Soc:
Can one be mistaken about who one’s
friends and enemies are? In
such a situation, the definition means that the “just” man might merely be
helping those whom he believes (falsely) to be his friends....
--Note
that this point presages an important move in the criticism of Thrasymachus’
orientation at 339c below!
-335a Pol: justice amounts to
benefiting the friend who is good and harming the enemy who is bad.
335b Soc: “Is
it the role of the just man to harm anyone at all?”
-Pol: Yes—the enemies
who are bad!
-Soc: Do horses, dogs, etc.,
become better or worse when harmed?
--335b-e Soc:
Justice and harming human
excellence [arête][3]—music
instructors and riding-masters: can they by the practice of their crafts make
men unmusical and non-horsemen?
“Can the just, by the practice of justice, make men unjust?”
--Critical
Comment: Note that the definition that is being critiqued here is both right
and wrong. While the “proper ruler”
is not supposed to “harm human excellence,” the ruling philosopher-kings and
auxiliaries will have to defend the state (at least against enemies from the
outside), and the idea that such rulers and soldiers will not harm others is,
surely, ludicrous. Thus later in
the Republic Plato’s Socrates has the
rulers behaving much as the earlier “definitions” indicate!
--Plato’s view here is
not the view of the age.
In his “Does Piety Pay?
Socrates and Plato on Prayer and Sacrifice,” Mark McPherran maintains that:
“first, it seems unlikely that Socrates’ disbelief [in the
Euthyphro] in divine enmity and
injustice per se would put him at risk of disbelief in the civic gods….Thanks to
their exposure to the works of Hesiod, Sophocles, and Aeschylus, most Athenians
were acquainted with affirmations of the gods’ justice, and we hear of no one
demurring at these expressions….It is, rather, with his rejection of the
negative side of lex talionis (that
is, the “return of an evil for an evil” [part of this doctrine which holds that
we should return a good for a good, a loss for a loss, and an evil for an
evil]), and some of the propitiatory do
ut des [loosely: give as you receive] aspects of cult that Socrates’
doctrine of divine justice seems to present a threat to the civic gods and cult
of Athens.”[4]
Clearly Plato’s Socrates is calling for a significant change in the
conception of justice given what he says here!
Thrasymachus and Justice:
336a Thr: “If you really want to
know...stop scoring points....”
-Rhetoric
vs. philosophy.
Thrasymachus was a noted sophist—a teacher of rhetoric and oratory (and,
perhaps, virtue).
338c Thr: Justice (or the
Right) amounts to the advantage of the
stronger.
Soc: Before I praise this
definition, I must understand your meaning.
Thr: “Each government makes laws
to its own advantage...”
-339c Soc: Are the rulers in all
cities infallible?
--339e Where the rulers are wrong
about what is in their interests, if the subjects do what the rulers tell them
to do, they will be doing what is to the
disadvantage of the stronger!
--340c Clitophon breaks in to try
to “rescue” Thrasymachus by maintaining that what he must have meant was
“whatever the stronger believes to be
in his interest.”
--341 b Thr: “Do you think I’d
call someone who is in error stronger at the very moment time he errs?
“I mean the ruler in the most
precise sense.”
-341c Soc: Physician
qua[5]
Physician (vs. the
money-maker).
--341c-342d -Soc: What does the
physician (in the precise sense) aim at?
Medicine seeks the health of
the patient, horse-breeding the good
of horses, etc. (342d) “Surely,
then, no doctor, insofar as he is a doctor, seeks or orders what is advantageous
to himself, but to his patient.”
--342e “...no one in any position
of rule, insofar as he is a ruler, seeks or orders what is advantageous to
himself, but what is advantageous to his subjects....”
--Philosophical
Aside: Is Plato’s Socrates describing politicians as they were then (or are
now), or is he describing them as they ought to be?
-343b Thr:
What of shepherds?
You don’t understand at all Socrates!
--Thrasymachus maintains that
Plato’s Socrates not only misunderstands the
nature of justice, but also
misunderstands its value.
His discussion introduces the
second of the two major problems
that Plato would address in the Republic: the “question” of the
value of justice (“What is justice
good for, and how “good” is it?”).
The first question, of course, is “What is justice?”
It is this question that we have been looking at so far, and of course,
it must be answered before the second one may be addressed properly.
--343d-344c Thr: “A just man
always gets less than an unjust one....A person of great power
outdoes[6]
everyone else.” When people
denounce wrong it is because they are afraid of
suffering wrong, not of
doing it.
--345 Soc: I believe that
injustice is not more profitable, but
let’s examine the claim again.
-345d Soc: let us look at your
idea carefully Thrasymachus—the shepherd
qua shepherd (rather than money-maker).
Wage-earning is a different art/skill from the doctor’s, ship captain’s,
and shepherd’s. (346a) “...doesn’t
every craft differ from every other in having a different function?”
--346e “...no craft or rule
provides its own advantage, but, as we’ve been saying for some time, it provides
and orders for its subject and aims at its advantage, that of the weaker, not of
the stronger.”
--347b-c No one will
willingly want to rule and we will have to compel the good man to do so....”Now,
the greatest punishment, if one isn’t willing to rule, is to be ruled by someone
worse than oneself. And I think
that it’s fear of this that makes decent people rule when they do.”
347e
Which profits one most—justice or
injustice? Which is the “way”
followed by those who are proper practitioners of the “art of life?”
-Socrates and Thrasymachus agree
that there is such a craft (as justice), but they disagree over what happiness
is (Thrasymachus maintains that it is “getting more than your fair share of what
are commonly called the good things in life [knowledge,
power, happiness]), and Socrates shows him that the unjust man actually
doesn’t resemble the “craftsman” in any of these facets—those who truly have
knowledge, power, and happiness do not resemble the unjust man.
-349b Unjust men
endeavor to “outdo” or “overreach”
others—they try to have “more than their fair share.”
--In this do they resemble men
who know or men who don’t? Do
experts behave thusly?
--350d Thrasymachus blushes.
-351-352 Injustice implants hate
and dissension, and an “unjust unit” becomes hostile to itself!
--352 “...injustice has
the power, first, to make whatever it arises in—whether it is a city, a family,
an army, or anything else—incapable of achieving anything as a unit, because of
the civil wars and differences it creates, and, second, it makes that unit an
enemy to itself....” Injustice
causes a “civil war” within the soul [351d].
-352d Who is
happier: the just or the unjust man?
--352e-353e Things have
functions or
excellences [arête]—carving
knives, pruning knives, etc. The
soul’s function is that of “taking care of things,” ruling,” and “living.”
(353e): “...a bad soul rules and takes care of things badly and a good
soul does all these things well.”
The good soul, in effect, “lives well.”
Can the unjust man live well?
The just man is happy and “profits” from his justice, the unjust man is
miserable.
354b “I seem to have
behaved like a glutton, snatching at every dish that passes and tasting it
before properly savoring its predecessor.
Before finding the answer to our first inquiry about what justice is, I
let go and turned to investigate whether it is a kind of vice and ignorance or a
kind of wisdom and virtue. Then an
argument came up about injustice being more profitable than justice, and I
couldn’t refrain from abandoning the previous one and following up on that.
Hence the result of the discussion, as far as I’m concerned, is that I
know nothing, for when I don’t know what justice is, I’ll hardly know whether it
is a kind of virtue or not, or whether a person who has it is happy or unhappy.”
[BOOK II]
2. The challenges
of Glaucon and Adeimantus [357a-368c]:
Socrates is not the only one who is dissatisfied with what
he has said to Thrasymachus. In
this passage two figures step in to restate Thrasymachus’ objections more
carefully and to present Plato’s Socrates with the two central challenges that
he will endeavor to meet in the remainder of the book.
Plato chooses his two brothers, Glaucon and Adeimantus, for this role.
While neither is of the same opinion as Thrasymachus, each feels that a
better refutation of his view is called for.
They press Socrates for such a response.
Glaucon points out (357a-358) that there are both
extrinsic and
intrinsic goods, and he asks which
Socrates thinks justice is.[7]
Plato’s Socrates responds that he believes that justice is both
intrinsically and extrinsically good, and Glaucon challenges him to show that it
is intrinsically valuable (claiming that most people would consider justice to
be [at most] extrinsically valuable).
Glaucon imagines two individuals in possession of the magical rings of
Gyges (359d) (rings which render one invisible and immune to prosecution for
any wrong-doing)—one a just individual and the other an unjust individual.
He contends that many would think the just individual a fool if she or he
didn’t take advantage of the ring’s powers.
Glaucon asks Plato’s Socrates to posit two ideal types of individuals
(the perfectly just individual who reaps no extrinsic rewards from his justice,
and the perfectly unjust person who reaps every imaginable extrinsic reward) and
to convince us that the intrinsic rewards of justice are preferable (360e-361d).
Adeimantus maintains that while justice may pay, injustice is said to pay
better (363a). That is, according
to him people are interested only in the reputation for justice.
He demands that Plato’s Socrates “...not...give us a merely theoretical
proof that justice is better than injustice, but
tell us what effect each has in and by
itself, the one for good, the other for evil, whether or not it be hidden from
gods and men” [367d-e].
357b
Glaucon: three types of good:
instrumental, intrinsic, and both.
-358e Many say justice
is good for its consequences. But
they really believe that injustice is actually better, though they all fear
being wronged:
--People
believe it is fine to do wrong but they fear being wronged and, thus, they make
“compacts” to neither do nor suffer wrong.
Imagine two individuals with Gyges’ rings.
--360d “Every man believes that
injustice is much more profitable to himself than justice, and any exponent of
this argument will say that he is right.
The man who did not wish to do wrong with that opportunity, and did not
touch other people’s property, would be thought by those who knew it to be very
foolish and miserable.”
--360e
Imagine two “ideal types:” strip the
unjust man of all the negative consequences and “visit” them upon the just man,
and, then, show that justice is indeed intrinsically valuable.
362d
Adeimantus: while justice may pay,
injustice is said to pay better.
People are interested only in the
reputation for justice.
-When justice is praised it is
not justice itself that is recommended but, rather, the reputation for it!
-We need to be shown what harm
comes of being unjust and what good comes from being just.
-367d-e Show us “in what
way does its [justice’s] very possession benefit a man and injustice harm him?”
“Do not...give us a merely theoretical proof that justice is better than
injustice, but tell us what effect each
has in and by itself, the one for good, the other for evil, whether or not it be
hidden from gods and men.”
[1] The
citations are from Plato’s
Republic,
translated by G.M.A. Grube, revised by C.D.C.
Reeve (Indianapolis: Hackett, 1992).
Some of the passages are from the
unrevised translation by Grube.
The marginal page references in the text
refer to a collection of Plato’s works (Platonis
Opera [Paris: 1578]) edited by Henri
Stephanus.
This edition’s pagination has become the
standard way of identifying and referring to
Plato.
Emphasis has been added to several of the
passages.
[2] As noted
by our translator and editor, the Greek word
here is
techne and it has connotations similar to
‘science’ today.
The connotation carries the idea that the
craft-person would have a “special” sort of
knowledge.
[3] The
notion of “human excellence,” or “virtue” (the
Greek word here is
arête),
is one that is difficult for us to initially
understand.
The notion here is not (simply) one of
“moral virtue,” since artifacts and ordinary
objects may have an “excellence.”
The “excellence” or “virtue” of a thing
(or individual) consists of that which enables
it to perform its
particular function well.
For example, the
arête
of a knife might be to cut well.
Note that this notion of “excellence”
presumes that things (or individuals) have
“functions” and assumes that they have a
particular (unique)
function.
Knives, for example, are used not only
for cutting but for spreading; and it is not
clear what the function of human beings is.
[4] Mark
McPherran, “Does Piety Pay?
Socrates and Plato on Prayer and
Sacrifice,” in
The Trial
and Execution of Socrates: Sources and
Controversies, eds. Thomas Brickhouse and
Nicholas Smith (N.Y.: Oxford U.P., 2002), pp.
162-190, p. 169.
The article originally appeared in
Reason
and Religion in Socratic Philosophy, eds.
Nicholas Smith and Paul Woodruff (N.Y.: Oxford
U.P., 2000), pp. 89-114.
[5] ‘Qua’
means “in so far as”—so a physician
qua
physician is one whom we speak of as a doctor
(rather than as a parent, driver, or
money-earner.
[6] The word
here is important, though the translation is a
problem.
C.D.C. Reeve indicates in a footnote to
his revision of Grube’s translation that
‘outdoes’ (or ‘overreaches’) here means to
“...outdo everyone else by getting and having
more and more.
Pleonexia is, or is the cause of injustice
(359c), since always wanting to outdo others
leads one to try to get what belongs to them,
what isn’t one’s own.
It is contrasted with doing or having
one’s own, which is, or is the cause of, justice
(343a, 441e).”
[7] An
intrinsically valuable goal, or activity, is one
that is pursued for its own sake.
Such values are contrasted with
extrinsic
values—here the goal or activity is valued for
what it will allow one to achieve.
Health, for example, might be
intrinsically valuable (good-in-itself), while
wealth is usually conceived of as extrinsically
valuable (good-for-what-it-can-get-us).
Go to Lecture Supplement on Republic Part II
File revised on .